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suzanne golden




31 Jan 1980

  • 2243 Rank

  • 13 Points


sgolden asked:

05 Jan 2010

what type of developer should i use with a demi permanet color? does it matter?

what type of developer should i use with demi permanet haircolor



divadelamort says:

Posted on 06 Jan 2010

Developer is very important. I am a stylist I specialize in corrective color.

Demi permanent Haircolor unlike permanent Color isn't completely open the hair cuticle, and depositing in the shaft. So it doesn't need the same developer. Also keep in mind that developers for permanent color come in different strenghts. The level you use has a direct affect on the level of color.

Most professional product doesn't have 'directions' on the bottle. They will have the mixing ratios of color to developer, 1:1 or 1:2 are most common. They will also sometimes tell you what developer to use.

Professionals have been trained in color theory, so we don't need instructions per se. We also usually receive secondary education from distrubtors and product line educators.

To use color properly a stylist will know color theory, basic hair chemistry, and color levels.

Going to sallys and buying 'professional' product is not a great idea for those who aren't trained.

The product lines at Sallys aren't the lines most stylists use. Sallys is perfect for beauty school students but there are much more advanced, reliable, and less damaging color lines only available to lic. Cosmetologists.

The majority of my yearly income is made from corrective color. This means 'fixing' the kitchen beauticians mistakes. Fixing mistakes is time consuming, expensive and often times hard on the hair. Rates vary but its common to charge a client by the hour, usually a minimum of 100.00 per hour and additionally charge for product (per oz). This doesn't include a haircut which is also usually needed.

I can usually do it within 2 hours but not always.

Be careful when doing at home color, often times the money you 'saved' by doing home color costs way more than just going to salon in the first place especially when mistakes happen.


ctl888 says:

Posted on 05 Jan 2010

Whenever I used a demi color the bottle always suggested Volume 20. Does your bottle have any instructions?


shysparrow13 says:

Posted on 05 Jan 2010

i'm not sure, it depends on what brand it is.


divadelamort says:

Posted on 06 Jan 2010

Ok I'm worried. Just realized your doing this to another person but you don't work for a salon? You do know you can have your lic. Revoked for doing professional services in places not allowed per your states cosmo. Board laws and regulations.

That being said, I've never heard "foil job" from professionals, you'll want to get in the habit of using professional terms.

Your client has previously highlighted hair, she's a natural level 3.

To help you I need the following info.

1. What level is the previously highlighted hair?

2. How much regrowth does client have?

3. How severe is line of demarkcation?

4. Is client happy with the level of previous highlights?

(Keep in mind level and tone aren't the same thing)

5. What tone is client wanting blonde to be.

6. Is there any previous color on the hair you will be highlighting?

7. She's a level 3 but wants blonde on top and dark underneath, 3 is very dark is she wanting the dark part to be darker than her level 3?

8. Do you have access to a better distrbutor, I see from your product line choices you shop at sallys.

9. What exactly are you wanting demi color for?

10. What brand demi do you plan to use?

I can help you formulate better if you can answer these questions for me!


divadelamort says:

Posted on 06 Jan 2010

Suggestion. Instead of doing a basic weave and highlight you could try a color blocking technique. This saves on time.

You could also do balyage if her line of demark/regrowth area is severe, this gives a natural look to highlights and allows client to go longer between retouch services.

Depending on level of desired blonde instead of bleach use a highlift blonding color with double 40 dev. This is easier on hair and if done correctly eliminates need for toning, and gives a dimensional blonde coloring. This won't work at all if you are trying to lift previously colored hair, COLOR WILL NOT AND CAN NOT LIFT COLOR, (except maybe half a shade) so powdered lightener is needed in those cases.

Instead of weaving with foils, use a slicing technique for more dramatic results, this saves time as well.

Sloppy sections and foils = uneven blonde tones,

1.make sure you take small sections and get close to scalp when using highlift color.

2. When using bleach use small sections and don't forget bleach swells so you'll want to stay 1/4 inch away from scalp, if you don't you'll have bleeding and spotting.

At line of demark feather the lightener/highlift color into the previously lifted hair, this ensures a natural look and combats/masks any "banding" that can occur in lightened hair!

Orange blonde is usually seen in hair that's naturally level 4 or lower being lifted to a level 7 or 8.

Toner needs to be same level as lifted hair or it won't be able to properly tone out unwanted undertones.

As your new to salon life your blonde may not be 100% even, in this case tone to the same level as the darkest level in blonde.


Client natural 4 wants level 8 blonde highlights in a cool tone.

She has no darker color on hair being lifted.

I would use fusion double blonding with a blue base, redken double blondes bn or ab, with double 40 dev.

Client level 3 wants 8 cool tones,

Then I use paul mitchell lightener with level 20, 30, or 40 dev. (Depending on application, never use 40 against scalp)

At desired level I rinse hair, shampoo (chelating shampoo joico kpak) conditioner with protiens, porosity and ph stabalizer.

Then I use paul mitchell shines (pm shines)

1/2oz 9v and 1/2oz 9bv 1 color shot blue (color shot for clients with heavy heavy warm undertones) 1/2oz 8n and 1/2oz clear mix with 2oz developer. Then process for anywhere from 20 to 40 mins. Due a strand test at 20 mins and then recheck every 5 until blonde is at desired tone, at shampoo bowl ill get my hands wet then work the toner that's on hair into a lather, yes it will actually lather (most color will lather when slightly dampened and worked or massaged, after full lather rinse really really well, then shampoo with a color safe hydrating shampoo (I use sudz) rinse, hydrating conditioner with ph balancing (I use one from wella it comes in grey bottle with green lettering and smells herbally and minty its a pistachio light green color...can't remember name) let this set on hair for 2 to 5 mins. Rinse.

Now look at clients hair is it in a damaged state? If so offer a deep conditioning treatment regimine, and book them to come see you in a week and every 2 weeks for treatment. I use redken chemistry system, chi silk system and joico pro kpak system depending on type of hair and type of damage.

Also I finish hair with a cuticle sealer, usually leave in.

Color can't be seen in true tone on wet hair, a good stylist needs to dry the hair to see the real color, I include a free style with my color services because I want to dry the whole head and make sure color is perfect... if you prefer not to at a minimum you'll want to dry a few sections so both you and client can see the color.

Also color has little to do with shiny hair, but people like shiny hair and will like color more on properly finished and styled hair.

They did a side by side test and people always picked the version where hair was shiny and healthy looking over rough damaged hair, people thot color was better on shiny hair but in actuality it was the same exact color on the same person!

Do you need foil and color placement schematics/guides? If so let me know!

If you have any questions hit me up!


divadelamort says:

Posted on 07 Jan 2010

Oh wow I don't what product lines cullivan carries. Stay away from sallys as they tend to be less than scupulous with date freshness and diverted product, you don't need the hassle of half oxidated color.

I'm taking it you'll be doing it in a home setting, so you'll likely want to bring a bonnet attachment for a hairdryer so you can process color faster.

Sounds to me like she's not big on the responsibility of maintaining blonde hair, you may want to make sure your comfortable with that, I mean your name and reputation are directly tied to your clients and their hair.

Personally I would talk her into a balyage color technique instead of chunky highlights. Or at least a more progressive technique. If not for fashion at least for your sanity.

I mean really she's asking for something that's so outta date and a lot of work for you and needs constant frequent upkeep.

I dunno if its the same in Boston but here in the west if a client goes past the 2.5 to 3.0 inch regrowth marker they are charged for corrective color. Seriously she's asking a lot out of you and doesn't seem to want to consider your opinion.

I dunno her, I don't know what's been talked about but your either crazy or a saint eitherway don't ever feel pressured to do something you can't stnd behind! No matter how much a clients wants you to.

Level 2 and 3 honestly aren't very precievable to an untrained eye, your best bet here is to "fool" her eye... people always see warmer tones as "lighter" and cool tones as darker on levels 7 and lower! Its crazy, but I've had to do corrections in our salon when a client was unhappy with hair level being too light or too dark 75% of the time ill leave them at the same level the original stylist had them at or only adjust with a half level (not really percieveable I do it only to open cuticle a tiny bit) what I do is almost an over correction of tone. So if hair is too dark level 4, ill open cuticle and do a level 4.5 and flood the hair with warmth, I'm careful to stay with warms not hots like reds and red violets, I use golds yellows and coppers to flood the tone warm. Or if client thinks a shade is to light I will flood with blues and violets (and a little green if hair is overly red) I don't like using ash bases for cool flooding cause to me it drabs out the tone too much.

My suggestion would be change the tone of her underlayer natural level 3... make is a very cool tone, this will actually help seal the natural hair making it appear shinier and healthier and serves a second purpose, as it leaches out or "fades" it will be releasing cool pigment into the shampoo and conditioner as she uses those and will subtly tone the light hair...

If you have access to paul mitchell or joico kpak lighteners I prefer these. Both for lifting ability and relative damaged caused.

I'm racking my brain trying to remember so if I'm wrong let me know ... the kscope is the lightener that has those color additive cream things that are scented like various foods right? If so it might work but your going to need to do some tricky formulating. And fancy speedy foiling skills. I'm not a huge fan of the system, its fine for subtle amounts of warmth but there are better ways to tone and lift at the same time.

Have you been taught how to do any bleach over half oxidized color or vice versa?

If it was me I would explain that she's wanting to go up quite a few levels, 3 to 9 or 10 may not be realistic in a single process. I don't know about your speed but ill assume its similar to mine and I don't know how quickly or slowly her hair will left so this is just a loose example you'll have to tailor it to you and her.

First off I guess I would formulate with a lightener she's a 3 wanting to be a 9 that's 6 levels, I want to process the midshaft quickly id use lightener with 40 vol. (If of course her hair can handle is) do only midshaft leaving 1/3 in. Gap between the scalp and starting point and another 1/3 inch gap between the bleach and the original line of demarkation...if I did this I would be doing thin sections and alternate super fine weave pattern and a thin slice, using open foils. Then depending on time avail. And quickness of her hair in processing I would mix new lightener with either 20 vol dev or 30 vol developer this would then be feathered into root area (heat from scalp will cause roots to process faster than midshaft so we use a lower developer strength) I would also be marrying the 40vol lightener with the 20 vol and feathering a staggered pattern into the line of demarkation at same time and loosely closing the foils into packets.

Process until all hair is the level 8 she should be a pumpkin head all over , work 20vol mixture over entire length of hair and wait for level 9 (or if too much time has gone by process hair to 8 and instead of working lightener into previously lifted hair just rinse...) now I would rinse really really really well, a lot of people skimp here and bleach is super attracted to hair so it trys to hold on for dearlife if you aren't careful small particles hide in the damaged cuticle areas, this is bad 1. It blocks hair conditioner from getting into the damaged areas and 2. It causes a less the perfect adhesion of toner and creates a motteled look. Shampoo rinse repeat, protein conditioner, fully rinse add porosity and ph filler/fixer

Ok so the level 9 should be uniform throughout the entire length. (If you stopped at 8 follow plan b)

Plan A your level 9 so now you need to choose a toner!

Power dry the hair so its free of any moisture.

If you have ability to get PMshines please do as they tone slowly so you can do her dark color at same time.

Violet beige blonde (cool neutral blonde)

Mix 8n 1oz with 1oz 9nb with 2 shots of violet shots or 1 shot violet and 1 shot blue or 2 shots blue, usually on overly warm I do 1 violet shot and 1blue shot, add 2oz of processing liquid.

Dark color

Deep cool brown

2oz 3v 3 shots blue color shot add 2oz processing liquid...

Process both for 20 mins

Plan b client is at level 8 depending on health of hair you could do bleach with 20 vol. And work it back through from 1/4 inch of scalp through midshaft and down length ( it will be impossible to get every single previously worked strand so don't freak out if there are some level 8 pieces left out of second foils.

You could also use a highlift blonde with a blueviolet base or a neutral base, let it lighten to a 10.

In meantime do dark color

Other possiblities are

3n 2oz 2shotsblue 1 shot violet 2oz process liq.


1oz 3v with 1oz 3y add to 2oz process liq.

Process 25-35 mins.

Rinse entire head, is blonde still too warm? Or is it perfect?

If its still yellow use the violet flash toner, 5 mins - 10mins then rinse

Still brassy and orangey, blue flash toner 5 mins -10mins then rinse

Shampoo, deep condition, cut/trim. Add chi silk drops blowdry and style!


divadelamort says:

Posted on 07 Jan 2010

Technique I would use... balyage

Same basic formulas for bleach

SarahJParker has a pretty good version of a balyaged do, its darker at root and slowly gets blonder and blonder towards tips.

Obviously your client wants it to be lighter than the sjp picture and you could do that easily.

I've found clients who like to wait 3 and 4 months before a retouch really like balyage and shade progression alot . It helps their regrowth blend better as it grows out!

I hope your color goes well on Sunday!

Also I don't use clariol but you should see if they have an education website link for pros they may be able to help you with formulations and tips using their product!

If you need formulas I can help with alphaparf framesi redken paulmitchell goldwell matrix color sync chi (only highlift reds and blondes) joico and some schwartzkopf

I've had some experience with sebastian gels, and yikes fancifuls, but I don't think I could formulate off the top of my head.

Speaking of CHI the lightener might actually be a good idea for this client, I only use it on my native american clients with extreme amounts of hot and warm undertones. It works really well and gives an even lift with a lot of toning. I can easily get these clients to a neutral 7/8 level, make sure to use small sections and even amount of product, I don't usually use heat when lifting so I don't rememeber if they say you can or not. I would substitute the Chi with blue base for the powder lightener and use same developer levels as in my previous post!

You may still have to tone a little to get her blonde to be a cool tone but I bet you wouldn't have to tone if she was happy with a neutral tone.


And let us know how it turns out! Pictures would be super cool!


sgolden says:

Posted on 05 Jan 2010

i havent gotten 1 yet, i am doing a foil job saturday. her natural hair is dark brown about a level 3, but she has the top foiled blonde (it was blonde i should say now its kind of orangey gold) & the underneath dark brown. she wants me to foil the top light light blonde & color the bottom very dark. i am a licensed hairdresser not in a salon right now so i do have a clue to what i am doing but i havent been licensed long so i just like to ask questions to see what others think i have done this style b4 but the top was not allready foiled , i plain on using bw2 bleach then toning it, or i might just use the kaleidscope bleach. thanks for answering me if u hav any suggestions they are welcome :) thanks again!


sgolden says:

Posted on 06 Jan 2010

hi thank you for taking time to answer my questions. i do understand color theroy, & levels. i have worked in salons before & have done color & foils before. but where i am fairly new to this (only been lic. for 3yrs.) i do like to get others opinions. her natural color is a level 3 & yea she does wamt to go darker against my suggestion. i am thinking of only going down to a level 2 because i think her lev. 3 is dark enough. the only color she has on her hair now is the old bleach which is about a level 7 but very brassy! her regrowth is about 4inches ( as you can tell she hasn't had her hair done in a while) she wants the new foils to be a level 9 or 10 w/ a cool tone & wants me to go heavy on the foils. she almost wants a single process blonde w/ out actually doing that. i am not a fan of sallys but in school we used clairol & i went to a clairol class where they were doing a demo on kaleidocolors and really liked how they worked. my store of choice is cb cullivans & that is where i will be going to get the color i need. if i didnt use the kaleidocolors i was going to use bw2 & a toner (thats where the demi comes in). oh and i guess foil job must be a boston thing :) any suggestions would be welcomed. thanks again

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